2820 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA BEFORE THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE OPERATING BUDGET HEARINGS - SCHOOL DISTRICT - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, March 8, 2000 2:20 p.m. - - - BILL 000007 - Authorizing the Board of Education of the School District of Philadelphia to impose a tax on real estate within Philadelphia. . . BILL 000008 - Further authorizing the Board of Education to impose a tax on the use or occupancy of real estate within Philadelphia. . . BILL 000009 - Further authorizing the Board of Education to impose a tax on net income from real property, tangible, and intangible of property of residents of Philadelphia. . . PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA, Chair COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE L. BLACKWELL COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILMAN W. THACHER LONGSTRETH COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 2821 I N D E X Shelly Yanoff, Executive Director, PCCY . . . 2822 Vernard Johnson, Healthy Family-Healthy Life 2860 John Skief, Harambi Charter School. . . . . . 2876 Reverend Robert Shine, Baraka Baptist Church 2899 Arnold Hall, Home and School Council. . . . . 2923 City Wide William Mackey, Executive Director. . . . . . 2934 Mark Spearman, Program Manager. . . . . . . . 2934 John McDaniel, Outreach Liaison . . . . . . . 2935 Kashmiera Harris. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2937 Phyllis Babcock, Retired Home Ec. Teacher . . 2951 Edward Schwartz . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2966 Institute for the Study of Civic Values 2822 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 P R O C E E D I N G S
Good afternoon, everyone. This is the continued public hearing for the Committee of the Whole regarding Bill No.'s 7, 8, and 9. Mr. Hornbeck, is there anything that you would like to add to your previous testimony?
No, Madam President. If there are questions, of course, I'm pleased to take them. I'm here to also hear the testimony of others.
Thank you so much. I believe our first witness will be Shelly Yanoff. Is she here? Oh, here she is. Please approach the witness table. (Shelly Yanoff comes forward.)
Good afternoon. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good afternoon, Council President Verna and Councilmembers. My name is Shelly Yanoff. I'm Executive Director of Philadelphia Citizens for Children and Youth, 2823 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 which is the region's child advocacy organization. This is the first time that I can remember that I'm testifying without testimony, and that's because the budget isn't ready, and I hope you will provide opportunity for citizen input when the budget is ready. I would, of course, underscore the need for the City to do the most it can to support the children and the public schools of this city. There are at least 212,000 children who need you to continue supporting them and look for ways to unite your voices in support of them. So I encourage you to do everything you can to cause the kind of consensus to more forward that we're seeing in other areas of the City.
Thank you. Despite the fact that we do not have a detailed budget, and I think we all feel very strongly that we should re-enact the taxes that are before us, there is nothing that prevents us from having -- and I know the Chairperson from the Education Committee is very much interested in having public hearings at a later date, and we 2824 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 will certainly do that.
I know, Miss Yanoff, that we have discussed some ideas as to how we can do something for young people and maybe direct some monies towards their education. And since we have begun discussing a process, it's very good that we begin throwing out these ideas so that people can begin hearing them so that when they're presented as legislative ordinances, we're not surprised by them. So if you can enlighten us about some of those fund-raising activities for many of schools, we would maybe appreciate some of that.
Well, Councilman Ortiz, you have been you have always been a champion of children and we're very grateful for that. We have been urging Council to -- in its consideration of stadiums, to remember that there's a lot of building that needs to be done for kids in schools and that we've been urging Council that before enacting anything official on 2825 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 the stadiums, that there be a set-aside for a youth fund so the children of Philadelphia can have those things that other children have in other parts of the city, state, and country. So that last year, when Councilwoman Blackwell held hearings on the sorry state of the libraries in the schools, when Councilwoman Reynolds-Brown, a few days ago, talked about the need for more arts and music, that we recognize that there are things that we can do with a separate fund that will not take the burden and the responsibility away from the State for the major funding of schools, but those other things that are important, including after-school programs and recreation and music and art and libraries, so that we could have that in the youth fund. Further, we are urging that the City and the State and SEPTA come together and to make it less of a burden for children in Philadelphia to go to school.
Do you have any ideas how that youth fund should be structured and where the money would come from? 2826 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9
Well, I think the youth fund can be begun by having -- charging $1 a ticket on any stadium -- on any event that is held in any stadium that is built henceforth through a substantial amount of public funds. Just at the very base, that would begin -- just using the numbers that we have currently, that would be more than $4 million on top of the proposed budget, and that would begin to improve the quality of life for children and families in the City.
Very interesting, very good. Thank you for putting that on the record.
Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the committee for Miss Yanoff, or comments? (No further questions or comments.)
The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo. 2827 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9
Thank you, Madam President. I had a call from the constituent that asked if I would ask a question of Mr. Hornbeck. May I do that?
Certainly. Mr. Hornbeck, do you mind taking the witness stand? (Mr. Hornbeck comes forward.)
Superintendent, you're aware of the controversy that the Philadelphia library system has reduced the age to 12 years old for a child to get R-rated videos from our library system, and also, they have unlimited access on the Internet, and I know we discussed the Internet and your effort to do what's right to limit that material from the very young in our school system. Does each of our schools -- and maybe I should know this but I don't, should -- do most of our schools have a library? 2828 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9
Many of our schools do not have a well-functioning library. In fact, one of the Fair Opportunities to Learn proposals that I've made to the old board and will make to the new board is that every school will have a librarian, and that next year, we would spend on its materials an amount equal to the average spent in the Commonwealth. There are also at least some of our schools where the library is so bad that the principal has made a decision to actually not keep it open and to focus on other ways of supporting instructional materials.
Superintendent, just before I go where I want to go here, have you ever done a study to see that -- I guess in an ideal world, it would obviously be the best condition to have a library in the school. But with the modernization of our libraries and also the additional libraries, could there be some consideration of working closer with our system to be the library for the school rather than have a duplicate? And I mentioned this earlier about trying to work together to save the taxpayers and 2829 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 the City some money.
Well, happily, the Free Library and we do lots of things together, so it's not a question of starting that. I would be most reluctant to see local libraries -- the Free Library units be a substitute for the school library because it just isn't a substitute. It can't respond, it can't be a technology center for the library, teachers can't send the kids and so on. But what I'm very enthusiastic about is continuing to look for ways to collaborate. And we have -- for example, we keep our central resource library for our special education at the Free Library, and that's a literally jointly funded project. We have a very tight relationship during the summertime around the summer programs, which is a formal joint relationship. And I suspect that every one of the 50-some-odd Free Library locations in the City has one or more formal school programs in there, and I would certainly want to continue those and grow them if we could.
So then there is 2830 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 some encouragement to use the Free Library system?
Now, give me an example of a school that has what you consider a -- I don't want to use the word "fine" library, but an adequate library. Give me an example of a school that has one.
Well, there are actually 30 schools, and I can't name one right now. I just know that there are 30 in the system, and I could certainly get you the names that -- in fact, I think there may be as many as 36 this year that have implemented what we refer to as "library power." This is a national program that was begun about eight years, and Philadelphia was one of the place that is we piloted it. And the foundation money ran out about three or four years ago, but because it was so good, schools in clusters pieced together the money to keep it going in 36 places. And it is that model that we are designing the Fair Opportunities to Learn on for the future, because 2831 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 we believe that there should be a library power model in each of the schools.
I guess you figure where I'm heading with this question is, do we have any adult material in any of our school libraries?
I don't know of any. It has -- during my five and a half years, it's not been an issue.
I'm sure we do in some places, but our libraries are so seriously underfunded that the prospect of buying any appreciable number of videos generally -- we spent this year $5 per kid for the whole year on library materials, for example.
So it would surprise you if you found out that in a particular school library that there would be R-rated videos.
It would surprise me, but I just don't know. 2832 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9
Would you -- would you object to R-rated videos being in a school library?
I've just never thought the question through or where that might be -- I don't even know which videos are R-rated. I don't know that I agree with the Motion Picture Association and their standards, even. I certainly would object to the use of popular films that depict violence and sex as being something that anyone would describe as instructionally valuable. And since we have so little money for stuff that is instructionally valuable, we have a long way to go before I would endorse the purchase of anything like that.
But your answer is that you're not confident that you really know the answer -- you don't know if there are or if there are not.
I just -- I -- I have not asked that particular question because it's never been an issue.
Well, you know, we never had this issue before where the age went 2833 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 from 14, and a year later, went to the age of 12. And the reason being -- I assume that the call that I got was to ask you that question. If we have it in the Free Library system, could it possibly in the School District system? And I'm pleased to hear that the likelihood of that happening is very small.
Yes. I don't think that's one of the biggest problems we have about libraries in the system; is that right, Mr. Superintendent?
That's not the biggest problem we have in terms of the school system.
No, it is not, not by 2834 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 any means.
The aspect of libraries is one that I'm interested in and it's one that -- because my daughter's library does not have a full-time librarian.
How do we -- what are the plans to achieve full-time librarians and full-time libraries in every school that we have? We should not be trying eliminate them.
Three years ago, in part, because of the elimination of positions like full-time librarian, the Mayor and then-City Council President Street and the Board and I drew this proverbial line in the sand so that we didn't go further into that hole, at least from a financial point of view. As we have -- the other day, when we were talking, there was a total of $155 million worth of Fair Opportunities to Learn items, which we identify as essential to maintaining the graduation and promotion requirements on that list -- which is a very short list as a matter of fact -- would be our ability to have a full-time 2835 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 librarian in every school, and in the next year, to grow the materials budget to about $12 a child from the $5 a child, the $12 being the average that is spent in the State. And in the longer term, looking to the subsequent three years, growing that materials budget to the point that we would be at around $30, which is the national average for the purchase of instructional materials. So it is my recommendation to the Board of Education that next year, we have that full- time librarian.
Thank you, Madam President. And Dr. Hornbeck, thank you very much for your prompt response to my request for information relative to the AMS or Pyramid computer system purchase.
It indicates to me, 2836 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 unless I'm reading the information you provided incorrectly, that the original contract for AMS was let on 1/12/98 in the amount of $14,500,000. To date, we have spent, according to the information provided to me -- unless I'm reading it incorrectly -- $29,011,000.
If you include the lease space and the training and all to AMS itself, it's $28,171,000.
Okay. So that -- I mean, that's, I would think, almost a little less than double what we originally thought?
And as a result of -- there's other contracts listed here. One is for Unisys.
And then there's a number for temporary help, H.R. contracts, and temporary help Unisys. Which of those are related 2837 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 to the original scope of the contract and which of those are related to any problems that may have come about as a result of its implementation?.
Well, the Unisys contract serves two ends. One part of that is that they helped us design the scope of the project originally, the RFP that went out. So a piece of it is for that. The other piece is to work with us over the years since in monitoring the implementation of the system. So they both monitor the implementation of the $14 million worth, and they've monitored the implementation of the other. The Ram Technologies is a contract that arises, I guess you would say, because of the difficulties that we have faced, because it is to actually come in and examine from a detailed point of view all the questions, for example, that you're asking. The temporary help H.R. contracts, I suppose you could say, in one sense are related to the issues beyond the original, although experience across the United States suggests that 2838 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 there are problems of the kind that we've encountered anytime you introduce big new systems like this, but they -- we simply had too few people to do all the input we needed to do. And then that other Unisys piece is additional support that is the consequence of having to extend the contract. So what we've done in here -- you had asked the other day for both the original, for the extension and for anything else that's related to this, and that's what we've tried to provide.
Okay. So the numbers, whether it's $28,171,000 or $29 million -- let's go to $28,171,000. That seems to be a substantial overrun. I mean, I don't think that anyone who would let a contract for a certain amount and that contract doubles, or almost doubles. How do we explain that to both the taxpayers and to those entities that we are going to go to soon or have been in the past unsuccessfully in an attempt to get additional dollars from the State when these kinds of issues are apparently a very glaring problem?
Well, I guess the single 2839 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 most important feature in that is that originally, we mistakenly thought that our staff could do more than our staff could do. And we got into contract and all of that in an effort to keep the costs low. The original contract was really quite exceptionally low, and we found out we couldn't do it. And so we turned back to Unisys and said, We need you to come in and what in effect are higher rates than we pay our own staff. And so the mistake here in that framework, for the most part, is a mistake that arises out of an earlier effort to try to save money. We would have been better off, I guess, if we had just gone ahead and tried to do it all outside and through AMS, and then the original contract would have a lot higher, and there might not have been any overrun at all.
During the course of the discussions with AMS prior to the granting of the contract, did AMS tell anybody on the staff that you guys might not be equipped to do what you said you were going to do?
Well, there was always 2840 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 discussion of that, and one couldn't tell at the beginning for sure how it was going to play out. I actually don't know -- and the people who were involved in the day-to-day operations are no 6 longer at the School District, but I don't know whether they ever said to them direction, you know, You guys are nuts in trying to do this much by yourselves.
Was the bid of AMS substantially lower than the Oracle, or they never gotten to a bidding point? Did the Oracle overbid?
Oracle never bid. The Board authorized and we sought to negotiate a contract with Oracle originally. But as far as I know, it never reached the bid point.
I'll go back to my last question, and that was, what do you think the effect of these kinds of instances has on the credibility of the School District?
Well, I think it largely depends on who characterizes it. If, in fact, you know, both you and I observe that what we were really trying to do is to save money in the way 2841 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 that we've saved the other 200 million over the last five years, and unfortunately, we low-balled it, then my guess is that it will have relatively little impact. But if you or I say, Boy, these guys did a cost overrun like $500 toilet seats and it just shows how unprepared they are, then my guess is that it would have a serious impact the other way.
Yeah. I mean, I haven't worked much in my career in the private sector and I don't know what your private-sector experience is but, I mean, I'm you're sure you can imagine what the results of this kind of situation may result in a private company, a private bank, a private institution, where the CEO and the Board of Directors makes it -- or the CEO and the staff makes a decision that the Board of Directors would, I guess, take great umbrage and concern about and may even result in some people losing their jobs.
I mean, doubling a contract -- 2842 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9
I have had the opportunity to work in the private sector, at least as a partner in a law firm. And in that particular instance because, to understate it, they are not underfunded and, therefore, their first concern was not saving money, as ours is, they wouldn't have started by low-balling it in the first place. My experience was quite extensive work with the private sector is that they have the kind of staffing and funding 'cause they pass costs on to the customers. So that's my perspective on the private-sector view.
And sometimes the public sector has similar experiences 'cause these costs get passed on to the public sector in the way of taxpayers.
Well, we haven't experienced too much of that in the School District, at least over the last five and a half years, because our pur-pupil cost has gone down during that period of time, not up, despite the fact that we've had, over the last several years, to serve about 15,000 additional students. 2843 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9
Okay. Let me ask you a question about what I think is another computer contract. I don't know if it's related to this or not, but there's a company by the name of Marcam (ph.). Are you familiar with that company and what services they provide?
Could you or is there someone here who could expound on what services they're providing and how much the contract --
Let me tell you what I know, and then if you want more, we may be able to get more. For a very many years, in the maintenance part of the District, handwritten work orders for maintenance operations in schools were written up and passed in through a chain of command, and then it got parcelled out to plumbers or electricians or whomever. And as you probably know from your years of experience here, there would be times that there would be, at least theoretically, active work orders that were as much as ten and twelve years old that had never 2844 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 been worked on. And one of the most unhappy parts, anytime you'd go into a school was how long the delay and so on. The Marcam system computerized all of that, and now we have a system that permits us to line those up and know where they are in the line and systemically send people out. And the good news is that as part of upgrading our facilities and trying to pay attention to maintenance, that we no longer have these 5- and 10-year-old work orders, and it has brought a greater productivity and systemization to that process.
Do they have offices anywhere in the country or outside the country?
I don't know. Tom, come on up here. This is Mr. 2845 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 McGlinchey, who is the Acting Managing Director of the School District, and before that, was responsible for facilities, and has been intimately involved in the installation of marketing.
Marcam is an international company. They have facilities throughout the United States and in some parts of Europe.
There is an office in Toronto, one of the their divisions, yes.
Are there employees from Marcam who come either weekly or monthly or bimonthly to Philadelphia from Toronto, from Chicago, from other cities, who are paid for -- or whose expenses are paid for to live in Philadelphia, to rent cars in Philadelphia, to travel back and forth on a weekly basis and the 2846 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 like?
We have personnel from Marcam on site in Philadelphia as part of the implementation team. Their expenses are covered under the contract, and I assume that's lodging as well as transportation.
And do they come in weekly or are they here for an extended period of time or --
We are in the third year of this contract, the final phase of installation, and some of those folks have been with us since the beginning of the contract.
Again, do they come in on a Monday and fly home on a Friday or --
Some do. Some come in periodically and stay for a week and we don't see 'em again for five or six weeks. It depends on the nature of the work that they're doing on the implementation.
Okay. Do any of these people have expenses that are paid for by the School District in the city they return to, either Toronto or Chicago? My information is -- 2847 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 and it may be wrong and maybe we can dispel it here -- that there are employees of this company that actually lease cars back in the cities that they live in at the expense of the School District of Philadelphia.
Well, that would not be covered under the contract. Transportation from their home to the airport, if they're in travel status, would certainly be covered, but the rental of cars for personal use is not covered. And if that's being billed to the School District, we certain will --
For example, an individual rents a car in Chicago, comes to Philadelphia to do the work for a couple days or a week, flies back to Chicago and gets into a leased car leased by the School District of Philadelphia to drive home.
No, that should not be. That would not be covered under the contract and should not be billed by the consultant or the company, either.
Mr. Kenney, if you actually do have information to the contrary, I'd 2848 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 really like to know because it seems to me that that would be entirely inappropriate.
Do any of the individuals who are employed by Marcam being paid for by the School District who come from either Toronto or Chicago or wherever, are any of those paying the wage tax in Philadelphia?
Quite frankly, I do not know. I know there are some -- there's at least one gentleman who does come from their Toronto office, and several come, on occasion, from out of city, out of state. I'm just not certain.
What's his first name. MR. MCGLINCHEY; Pierrot is his first name. He's from the Toronto area -- or Montreal. 2849 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9
Is there a Mr. Fred Wilke who is involved with this company?
Mr. Wilke is the president of a company called Management Results Incorporated, and they are the project implementation representative hired by Marcam to implement the project here in Philadelphia.
He does not work for Marcam, he works for -- is he on the contract for Marcam or --
Okay. Did Mr. Wilke, at anytime during the selection process, work as a volunteer on that project prior to the selection of Marcam?
Mr. Wilke was a member of the audit team that was commissioned by the School District through Greater Philadelphia First to perform a management and productivity audit of the School District. Mr. Wilke served as a representative of that team to audit, among other 2850 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 things, the facilities department.
Was he involved in the selection of Marcam as a vendor?
He was involved in the drafting of the RFP that we used to go out and secure respondents towards the computerized maintenance management system, and he helped us develop the criteria under which we selected those --
And now it's either being paid by -- he's either being paid by or works for or is under contract to Marcam?
He was hired by Marcam to implement the system in Philadelphia.
Okay. Does Mr. Wilke's -- are any of his family members also receiving any contracted -- any payments under contract to Marcam or under this company that's owned by Mr. Wilke or run by Mr. Wilke?
The company is a family-owned company. And I believe his son and daughter are both employees of the company.
Okay. What I would like, if possible, is to get information from the 2851 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 District as to the specifics on the amount of money that's been paid to Marcam to date, what service were rendered as a result of that, and what expenses -- lodging, travel, transportation, meals, anything that may be available to you that you could show us as a result of what we paid to individuals involved in this particular project, whether or not any of the individuals being paid for by Philadelphia and Commonwealth tax dollars are paying State taxes, City wage taxes, or any of the other appropriate taxes that any other employee of the District or any other vendor would be paying their employees? If you can just get me a rundown on exactly how much money we've spent and what we spent it on.
We will give you that information and also try to calculate for you the significant increase in productivity for the kids as a consequence also.
Okay. Anytime we're dealing with contracts at the level of $14 million, $28 million, $8 million, you know, after a while, as they say, that starts to add up 2852 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 to big bucks.
That's money that could be used for improving the $5 per head in the Library budget that we're dealing with.
So I appreciate the information. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
You're welcome. Are there any other questions or comments for Mr. Hornbeck? Councilman Nutter?
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just one point of information. From the discussion that Councilman Kenney and the Superintendent had with regard to the computer information, I got the impression that there was a document that my colleague was reading from. Is that document available? (Superintendent Hornbeck hands 2853 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 Councilman Nutter a large binder.)
Oh, okay. Great. Thank you. That's a fair amount of information. I thought it was just a couple pages. The only other issue that I have, Superintendent, was from the other day, and I don't know whether since Monday, you or the office were able to put together information responding to a request I had made regarding open or acting-filled positions at the upper levels of administration.
We are putting it together in our response to a variety of questions but, no, I don't have it with me today.
Okay, no problem. Thank you. Did you respond to a question the other day? I'm not saying that the question was asked, but there was some discussion about the financial situation. And I do not believe I asked, what is the plan to try to deal with the District's financial situation and the closing of the gap that presently exists or the gap going forward?
There is not a complete 2854 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 plan at this point. The Board, having been in place only since Friday, is still having discussion about that and with the Mayor. And it's one of the things that the Board is going to attend to in very short order, for obvious reasons. But there's not a finished plan of that kind at the moment.
Okay. Well, I mean, I understand about the situation with the new board and certainly wasn't expecting that they necessarily would have a game plan themselves at this point, but kind of the more stable portion of the operation of certainly yourself and your staff and -- I mean, all of you have been anticipating that this situation was going to come either in the current fiscal year or in the next fiscal year. So, I mean, I have to assume that you or members of your administration have been thinking about this for a little while and have some thoughts or suggestions that you will then transit to the new board.
The thinking to date was reflected in President Ramos's testimony the other 2855 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 day and that -- contained in those principles that he articulated. And namely, that most importantly, that the Board, the Administration, the Mayor has made clear as well that there would be no further cuts that would impact on school- based educational programs, that we needed to, in effect, go through the expenditure side with a fine-tooth comb to identify, whether it's $500,000 or $5 million, any extra efficiencies that we could add to the $200 million of efficiencies that in the aggregate we've accumulated over the last five years. And that to the extent possible -- and this is a subject still to which the new board needs to address itself -- that the Fair Opportunities to Learn would then add to that. Now, that means that the so-called carry-forward budget, as the President testified to the other day, would leave us at the end of '01 with a deficit of about $137 million, plus the $39 million carry-forward deficit from this year, and that whatever portion of Fair Opportunities to Learn were added to that would be on top of it, and on top of that, any settlement with the Philadelphia Federation of Teachers. 2856 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 But beyond that, I think it's fair to say that the issues, as you've framed them, are undecided.
Okay, all right. I just -- as I said, I think I meant to ask you that the other day, I realized that I had not, and I don't think the question actually came up so. . .
Mr. Hornbeck, needless to say, it is my understanding that once you have completed your plan, you will share that with City Council?
Thank you. Again, are there any other further questions or comments of Mr. Hornbeck? (No response.)
Our next witness is Mr. Joseph Boyle. (Joseph Boyle comes forward.)
Good 2857 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 afternoon, sir.
Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Thank you. My name is Joseph B. Boyle. I live at 9111 Blue Grass Road, Philadelphia. I would like to --
Excuse me, Mr. Boyle, would you speak into the microphone so that the stenographer could hear you.
Okay. I would like to talk about the SAT scores for this year, and the verbal was -- the verbal SATs was 416, the math SATs was 416. This 416 is a drop of 5 points from last year, and the other 416 is a drop of 7 points in the math from last year. So that's an indication of deterioration of the public school SATs, which is a very serious matter. I have new information on the number of students that -- the School District is 212,000 students. The number of employees is 31,313, the number of teachers is 12,300. If you divide the 2858 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 212,000 by 31,313, you get 6.77 students per employee. So 212,000 divided by 31,000 employees is 6.77 student per employee. And then if you divide the 212,000 students by 12,300, you get 17.23 students per teacher. Now, that certainly is a very low number of students per teacher. These verbal and math scores -- this drop in the verbal and math scores shows a very strong deterioration in education rather than it getting better. And I don't think there is any college or university in the Philadelphia area which would accept students who have such low SAT scores. I don't think there's a single college or university in the Philadelphia area which would accept such low grades as that. Parents who have children in Catholic schools have no desire to transfer them to public schools. God-centered education is important. What they need is a rebate of the real-estate taxes which go to the public school system, a rebate of those taxes, so that they can more readily support, as in our case, the Catholic school system, which gave us -- gave me a tremendous education and given my -- currently 2859 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 giving my grandchildren a very good education, and they have no desire to go into the public schools. And I'm sure that there are many other parents who have that same desire: they want God-centered education, they don't want to be taxed for non-God education, which does not even mention God, doesn't even mention mortality. And we are hopeful that City Council will some day come to the realization that the Catholic school system, the Lutheran school system, and any other Protestant school systems which put God first are doing a much better job of educating children for what they will -- how they will have to meet the needs when they become adults themselves. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Boyle, I really want to thank you for coming in. I think for as long as I can remember, you have been coming in year after year to testify. And we want to thank you for that.
Thank you so much. 2860 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9
Vernard Johnson. (Vernard Johnson comes forward.)
We're going to give each witness ten machines to testify. Good afternoon Mr. Johnson.
Good afternoon, Council President Verna and Councilwoman Miller.
I just wanted to -- unlike Shelly this year, I have mine in writing. All the years before, I didn't. So I'd just like to read what I have here.
I'd like to say that the statements that I'm about to make are in response to our years of involvement with the school system, in response to Town Meetings that were just held by Mayor Street, and plus the meetings that were held by Mayor Street and the School District in the last month or so, and -- and here 2861 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 we go. A major concern of ours for the last number of years has been the environment. That is that the students have to live in these old buildings. And I'd just like to say it is clear that a number of children attending Philadelphia schools have been lead-poisoned. A major concern is that many children are not tested before the level of lead in the blood reaches a very dangerous level. Many children attending Philadelphia schools, not limited to public schools, may very well be acting out in a negative way because of the levels of lead that are in the child's blood. High levels of lead in the blood can cause learning challenges for children. Is the District aware of children enrolled in school who have high enough levels of lead in their blood that can cause behavior and learning challenges? Has each one of these students received an individual education profile? What is the relationship between the school nurse and the health-care professional responsible for the student's health? 2862 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 The question related to lead in schools is one of major concern. Should that question go beyond drinking water? What is the agreement -- and we now know -- what is the agreement between the School District of Philadelphia, the Department of Health and the EPA around drinking water in the schools? Does the Health Department have the resources to monitor such an agreement? We often think that the Health Department comes for this Council and doesn't ask for the appropriate amount of money to carry out its mission in the community. And so we, therefore, feel that any agreement that involves the School District will continue to put an additional stress on the Health Department's resources to monitor the health care of students. The School District held the position several years ago that the levels of lead at the Franklin Learning Center were safe. An independent study supported with the assistance of then-Council President Street shows otherwise. Should children, students affected by the dangers of lead poisoning be placed in a school designed for students with behavioral challenges, or should 2863 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 the School District be meeting the challenge to provide those students with a fruitful learning experience and a clean, safe environment? I believe that the School District should be providing a fruitful learning experience and a clean, safe environment for children whose academic abilities and their behavior are called into question by their health care. Yesterday, we did some research and found the agreement at the EPA between the School District and the Department of Health that Councilwoman Reed and Councilwoman Blackwell now have in their possession. And I think it is far more than just turning on water that we're talking about, and I hope that the School District and the Health Department continue on the path to keep our children safe from being lead-poisoned in the very schools where they should be safe. We cannot stand for that. I'd like to talk some about safety and security. For too many years, I have seen the relationship between far too many students, their parents, NTAs, school police, and others take a turn for the worse. School police by themselves 2864 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 cannot control the environment of a school building. That environment has to be set by the adults who manage and work in the building daily and by students and their parents. They also must be counted on in setting a tone for which the students are to learn.
The leadership of the -- the student leadership of the West Philadelphia Student Government Association attended the West Philadelphia Cluster Town Meeting last week. They requested Mayor Street to assist them in meeting with the leadership of the School District police and the NTAs. They have been seeking such a meeting without success for a very long time. One of those students is a neighbor of mine, I've watched him grow up to be a real interesting young man. And I said to him that we would begin to work with the Student Government Association to at least meet with Councilwoman Miller and Councilwoman Blackwell. And I would like to have you consider my request to meet with those students, and if you find that those students' concerns and their methods that they have planned to address the 2865 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 concerns as it relates to their relationship with the School District police and NTAs and others are positive in their thought, then maybe you would help them to secure the meeting that they have been trying to secure for the last couple of years with the School District officials.
Mr. Johnson, Councilwoman Miller. I certainly will be glad to help coordinate and facilitate that meeting between the students and the School District police and the NTAs. And we'll talk about it after the hearing.
Many of our students have experienced serious situations in their life and react to certain situations based on their life experience. School officials are often aware of a student's background, when police officers may not be. Developing an ongoing relationship with student leaders may prove to be a rewarding learning experience that we all might profit from. As it relates to the health and safety of students, we strongly support each school 2866 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 having a school nurse. And we're glad to hear that Superintendent Hornbeck, I believe, in one of the Town Meetings last week is in full support of that. The West Philadelphia Cluster at this moment does not have a complement of school nurses in every building. This is an issue that we've raised in public forums for many years, and this is an area that we certain are willing to work with the District to secure adequate -- more than adequate funding for. But in absence of that, we have been meeting with organizations like the Health Department, Greater Philadelphia Health Action, Horizon House, the Healthy Start Program, which I am pleased to be serving as the Chair of the Philadelphia Healthy Start Consortium. And what we would like to do is to offer our services as a network of health organizations to support school nurses in the Bartram Cluster and the West Philadelphia and University City Cluster, if so desired, to offer health education programs to students and families of those particular clusters, in absence of the school nurse being able to do so. 2867 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 Because many school nurses spend their entire day providing primary-care services to many of the students, and so we cannot wait until we have adequate funding to support the school nurses, and this is an effort that we have all agreed upon that we would like to be involved in with the School District, and we'll give more detail of that effort at the Bartram Cluster meeting. And I'd like to say that the -- that the Health Commissioner -- the interim Health Commissioner, John Domzalski, has been sitting in on those meetings with us and has pledged the full support of the Health Department in that effort. And I'm almost done. I'd like to talk a little bit about our concern that charter schools in this system may be looked at as the stepchild of the public school system. And I haven't seen these figures personally, but I've been told that for each child who attends at least the World Communications Charter School, only $5100 follows that child to that school. And I believe that I've heard the figure for a public school student to be around $6900 a year. 2868 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 Well, if you take 500 students, and you do some math there, times the 1800, there is quite a bit of money that the charter schools, for whatever reason, and I'm sure the School District can explain the reason, but there's quite a bit of money that is being taken from students in charter schools. And as an example, the charter -- the World Communications Charter School, which is at Broad and South in Councilwoman Verna's district, I believe, had an after-school program for tutoring of students. They had a Saturday enrichment program and tutoring program for any student who wanted to attend and has had to, last week, send notices out to parents of those students that those services would no longer be available because of administrative budgetary kind of constraints. And I think it's -- my daughter, my youngest daughter is now a student at the World Communications Charter School, and I think it is a disservice to us, to me and her mother who's over, that we have chosen to send our child to a public school, to a charter school, that in fact gives us 2869 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 more choice, that we are basically happy with. I know my wife is happy with the feeling that our child is safe in this school.
There's always a struggle, even if you're paying for it, around quality academic education. But we think that this Council -- we hope that this Council will look closer at the issue around the budget as it relates to charter schools. And if the School District is holding $1500, $1800 per student, what is happening with those dollars? And I'm almost done here. I wanted to kind of respond to what I thought --
Mr. Johnson, would you please summarize, please.
Yes. The powers of a principal. There was a question here the other day about the powers of a principal. And what I would like to say is that I thought that the school plan for any individual school was put together by the principal as well as the other parts of the school family -- the parents, the students in some cases, the teachers. And in many cases, as it relates to my experience, principals 2870 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 run into go lots of obstacles in developing the kind of school climate that they think students need to be involved in. So I don't think that all of this criticism -- and I've been (unintelligible) on principals in the past, I don't think that all this criticism about books and other supplies and materials that the students don't have should be laid at the feet of the principals, solely. And my last point is this, is that I know that this is the year of the teachers' contract, and I think that teachers, like all of us, need to make a liveable wage, but I also think that the students should gain something from a decent contract. And maybe we might consider having teachers go out into the halls. As I understand it, it's part of the contract that they don't have to go out into the halls and monitor the halls that are unsafe. That it may be a part of a teacher's contract to go into the school yard with their elementary school students while those students are out playing at recess, and I understand that this contract says that they don't have to do that. 2871 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 So in closing, I'd like to say that we support teachers, we support good wages for teachers, but we hope that the School District doesn't give away the shop just to satisfy teachers and their requests for more dollars, but that they take into consideration the students' well-being and the safety of the school as well. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Johnson. I, too, want to thank you for your continued interest in our schools and certainly for your community involvement. Mr. Johnson, I believe that a couple Councilpeople would like to either ask you a question or make a statement, if you don't mind being seated. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Johnson, again, thanks for your hard work and your concern about the School District and the City. In reference to your health issue about the lead -- possible lead contamination in our 2872 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 City school water system, do you know if the teachers and the administrators drink the same water, or do they have bottled water in the schools? Do the school teachers, principal, administrators drink the same water?
Well, I don't know personally, but the same water's available to all, but I do know this: I think that there is a level of ignorance as it relates to the dangers of lead and the effects that lead can have on an adult.
But we did hear that the School District is doing a lot -- purging the pipes in the morning, four by four, to try to make the water supply system safer. And that is a technique that is used not just here but it's a proven technique. My question. When you visit a school, do you see water coolers in the offices?
So maybe the teachers and the principals and the administrators don't drink the same water as the kids.
I'm not going to say that, but I'm going to say this: that at the Franklin Learning Center several years ago, when the School District thought -- when the School District's position that the building was safe, the teachers' position was the same. And some community organizations came together because we did not believe that. Council President Street made money available so that we could go out and get an independent contractor to come look at the situation of lead dust at the Franklin Learning Center, only to find out that those dusts -- that that dust was at unacceptable levels. And so all I'm saying to you is that I think that with more education, both from our children to their parents and to women of child bearing age who happen to be teachers in the school, that we could do something different.
I'd also like to say that the document -- this is not a voluntary effort on 2874 3/8/00-SCHOOL BUDGET-CONT'D-BILLS 7,8,9 the part of the School District, that the document that we secured yesterday from the EPA will show you in detail what the School District is supposed to do both short term and long term to remedy the problem. And I just hope that --
So what you're saying is that the EPA is requiring the School District rather than the School District voluntarily --